The earliest known copy of the Book of Daniel found with the Dead Sea Scrolls was carbon dated to be written about 125BCE. Now, from reading the Bible, we know that Daniel wrote these prophecies around 530 BCE. The Book of Daniel that was carbon dated to be around 125 BCE is known to just be a copy of the original writing. Lets for the sake of argument agree that these prophecies were written around 125 BCE, and it was merely just a recounting of history, nothing prophetic about it. What about all the other prophecies it has in it that came true after this time period? If you’re not familiar with the Book of Daniel, it foretells:
The Babylonian Empire, The captivity of the Jews in Babylonia, the overthrow of Babylonia by the Medes-Persians, it talks about how the Persians rose up to take over the empire from the Medes, from there it talks about Alexander the Great and the Greeks overthrowing the Persians and when he died how his kingdom was divided up into 4 kingdoms, and how out of one of these kingdoms (Syria) came a terrible King who desecrated the temple, put a stop to daily sacrifice, and set up an abomination in the temple.
This was fulfilled through Antiochus Epiphanes in about 168 BC. He set up a statue of Zeus in the temple, and killed alot of people brutally.
Ok, we’re not done. We’re still not past 125 BC.
It talks about how the next kingdom is referred to as a beast with ten horns. 3 of the horns are torn away to make room for one little horn. This little horn would persecute God’s people for 1260 days (1260 years because God has appointed a day for a year in prophecies)
This was fulfilled with the Roman empire. The Holy Roman Empire destroyed 3 of these kingdoms (look it up in history, it’s a fact) and the papacy was officially declared in 538 AD. It lasted until 1798, when the French exiled the Pope. Exactly 1260 years. We all know what atrocities the Roman Empire did in the Dark Ages. But did you know it was foretold in the Bible centuries before it happened?
The Bible tells us that in the end times, the mortal wound inflicted on the little horn will be healed, which we see being fulfilled before our very eyes with the Roman Empire (European Union) and they will once again inflict terrible persecution upon everyone, when the Church reunites with the Government. If you don’t believe the Bible, then keep watching the Middle East and the European Union.
What do you have to say about this?
Yes Rick, you’re right. I forgot to mention that the Book of Daniel also perfectly prophecies about Jesus coming. so that would validate Jesus, and therefore validate the New Testament also.
Suggested Reading:
Prophecy of SwordsTo End a War Nearly a thousand years ago a great warrior named Lachlan sought to unify his people, using the power of the Three Swords of Destiny... Read More >
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I’d have to say I gave up on about the second paragraph. If there were one verifiable instance of prophecy in the Bible, rather than retroconning what it says, I might have made it to the end.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:14 pm
would you like to borrow my crowbar?
you gonna need to make all that fit.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:42 pm
“What do you have to say about this?”
Even if everything you say was absolutely correct (and it isn’t, as you’ve stretched several things, and used careful interpretations) I think you’ve validated Judaism, not Christianity, what with the Book of Daniel being in the Tanakh/Old Testament, and not, you know, the part specific to Christianity, the New Testament.
I mean, if I said the Book of Mormon was true, because of stuff…that was only in the Old and New Testaments, you’d…see why that didn’t make any sense, right?
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Moments in history are picked and chosen that best match the prophesy. There are probably as many historical events that are never mentioned. Its the law of odds. After enough time, there are going to be events that closely resemble the prophesy and then you add a little twist to the translation and ta-da! you have a prediction that supposedly came true.
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Instant karma, dude.
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 pm
What fulfilled prophesy? People read way too much into the bible. The bit about Daniel’s beast and the horns is a great example. With a little imagination one could think of a hundred possible scenarios to explain that. To call it fulfilled prophesy is a feat of mental gymnastics.
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:37 pm
It’s a crock!
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:41 pm
To speculate on the date of the Second Coming, even if it be only the year, is to seek to wrest a secret from God that Jesus explicitly states only the Father possesses. Therefore, speculating on the timing of our Lord’s return is arrogance bordering on blasphemy. As Bible commentator William Barclay explains, “It is not any man’s duty to speculate; it is his duty to prepare himself, and to watch.”…The aim of Jesus’ discourses on the Second Coming was always to one end: not to give us clues to dates His return, but to exhort us to be prepared.’ “Voice in the Wilderness”, Vol. 11, No.2 Apr-June 2003, p24 (published by Apostoliki Diakonia Committee Greek Orthodox Parish-Community of Saint George, Brisbane)
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:46 pm
You are using extremely vague “prophecies” to make this claim. In fact it looks more like you took your religious nonsense and form fitted it to history.
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:12 pm
And atheists say Christians refuse to listen to their irrefutable proof about the mechanisms of evolution, the “big bang”, etc….
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Ditto what Wolf said..
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Time out: “and they will once again inflict terrible persecution upon everyone, when the Church reunites with the Government?”
Then, as you, I’ll pick and choose relevancy to make a point that’s completely irrelavent:
Taking the chosen quote into account, why didn’t God come back after Henry VIII created the Angelican Church, which to this day is a branch of Great Britain’s government? Why not then? I’m sure some people would’ve even argued he was the anti-christ: he had eight wives and killed seven.
Why not WWI or WWII?
Why not the London fire?
Why not right now? Why not yesterday?
Why not Hurrican Katrina?
Why not the bombing of Sudan?
Why not global warming?
Wanna know why? Because you have absolutley no idea what you’re talking about. You’re taking fairy-tales, twisting them to your own agenda to create perverted fairy-tales, and them applying them to the real world. I can do that to:
Peter Pan is a 2000 year old child molester who sneaks into your children’s room at night, steals locks of their hair, and stores them so that, after your child’s death, he can match their DNA and decide if he wants them as part of the Lost Boys. Make sure you live a righteous life! You don’t wanna be part of the Lost Boys, do you?
None of that made any sense and I still prefer it to your propoganda. Whereas mine is blantanly ridiculous, your’s is blantantly ridiculous but backed by 3 billion people and eon’s worth of fear. Mine will never scare anybody; your’s tends to scare the s*** out of people. Way to go, champ.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:16 am
1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled:
1. Retrodiction. The “prophecy” can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.
2. Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus’s prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.
3. Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will.
4. Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made.
5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy.
There are no prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories.
2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people’s behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass; Jonah 3 gives an example. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning.
3. The Bible also contains failed prophecies, in the sense that things God said would happen did not (Skeptic’s Annotated Bible n.d.). For example:
* Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others (Josh. 3:9-10). But those tribes were not driven out (Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13).
* Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years (29:10-14), and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it (29:19-20). Neither happened.
4. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too (Prophecy Fulfilled n.d.).
5. Divinity is not shown by miracles. The Bible itself says true prophecies may come elsewhere than from God (Deut. 13:1-3), as may other miracles (Exod. 7:22, Matt. 4:8). Some people say that to focus on proofs is to miss the whole point of faith (John 20:29).
References:
1. Skeptic’s Annotated Bible. n.d. False prophecies, broken promises, and misquotes in the Bible. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
2. Prophecy Fulfilled. n.d. http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/
Further Reading:
Festinger, L., H. W. Riecken and S. Schachter. 1956. When Prophecy Fails. New York: Harper & Row.
July 4th, 2010 at 1:00 am
*drink*
Get a job.
July 4th, 2010 at 1:20 am
It received it’s mortal wound in 1798. In the early part of the 19th century it was revived and the world wondered after it that was, was not and now is. Notice too what Daniel prophesied concerning this in Daniel 7:23-25
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
This 4th beast is diverse then all the others. He shall think to change times and laws. This has happened with the change of the sabbath day to Sunday (a pagan day). The catholic church admits it changed the law to Sunday from sabbath (Saturday). The world also uses the Gregorian calendar. Interesting to read the history on this calendar. This also fits lovely with this prophesy. (change times and laws).
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Gregorian calendar is the most widely used calendar in the world today. It was first proposed by the Calabrian doctor Aloysius Lilius, and decreed by Pope Gregory XIII, after whom it was named, on 24 February 1582 by papal bull Inter gravissimas. It is a reform of the Julian calendar.
Interesting enough many of those who have answered this question still reject truth without checking out history for themselves. You are right about Daniel’s prophesies. These prophecies were fulfilled and you can’t just pick and chose and make it all fit. It DOES all fit!
July 4th, 2010 at 1:50 am
you can call it prophecy if you like
you can say the same about the nostradamus quatrains that we can fit events to.
hey I predicted russia would fall the day the berlin wall started to come down. (as i expect many intelligent people postulated)
the differnce is no-one wrote it down so i couldn’t be called a prophet when it happened years later.
now they just say “ya sure you did”.as if it would have taken a genius to put the two together
“they said he was mad” is a phrase that is usually followed by “untill he was proven right”
meanwhile the narrow minded people who dismiss everything that isnt in their book of rules ignore the people who get things right every day like the scientists, while clinging to the vain hope that previously failed biblical prohesies will be reinterpreted and proven correct.
hence: 100 huntley street
July 4th, 2010 at 2:40 am
No wonder Europeans are so concerned about the outcome of the coming US Elections.
Small historical point: the Roman Empire was set up by military invasion and occupation of other countries.
The European Union is a political union, in other words it came about through peaceful, democratic means. In most European countries the Church is separate from government (just like it is in the US) and I think you’ll find most Europeans want it to stay that way.
Democracy as we know it today was unheard of when the Bible was written. Slavery, a rigid hierarchical society and autocratic rule were the order of the day. In any case, how on earth could the authors of the Book of Daniel and other Biblical works have possibly been able to foresee what would happen centuries ahead of their own time?
Of course if you don’t have a logic chip you can adapt anything in the Bible to your own purpose.
July 4th, 2010 at 3:21 am
This question consists mostly of lies and gibberish. Please contact a mental health professional as soon as possible
July 4th, 2010 at 3:23 am
We can always make things fit if we want to. I think you may be validating judaism (partly) but nothing else.
So you validate a religion but you still cannot validate a god. They are two different things entirely
July 4th, 2010 at 4:13 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-KCQAVGxXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9WJCrxkz18&feature=related
First of all, for the most important facts for your question please visit the web side http://www.mormon.org
&
Just for you to know the truth
There have to be a purpose for life otherwise we will miss the peaceful path of happiness so we want to be just better everyday
So, spiritually, what is God? , What’s makes God as god? , What is God’s Power? , For all sort of these questions, I have very limited understanding so Let me give you the point. Well, just try to know, what’s makes God as god, the Power, isn’t it? So what the power can do? Ah? Well, it can give the ability to organise all things & it can give the ability to separate everything and most importantly, the Ability to control everything, isn’t it? Isn’t it good? Ah? So, what I try to say here is, from my hard study and research effort with the help from god, I realized that the ability to control everything, the Power of God is gradually increased in the full amount to use so; The Power of God is always the omnipotent and existed among everything. & The God now is always the same omnipotent for us, who is organised us and we are growing towards perfection. The perfection is the final stage, not the end. & The Power of God, the Ability is the reward for us to control everything in a proper manner, like the true God of goodness. & Everlasting Happiness is the final stage. & it cannot come alone without the final stage perfection of God. & if god always perfect in perfection then there have to be beginning with God for the organizing progress of all things. So, there is No end and also No beginning for all things, including this on going organizing progress. So we cannot get anything from nothing. & how could that be possible to be perfect in perfection always, ah…? No way has the perfection of god come first or the growth towards perfection. There is No End and there is No beginning and so the Ability is for the Love of Joy & ~ LOVE IS THE ABILITY ~
If you don’t still agree, then note this important point: – you can use any thing for Good or Bad so, whenever possible If you ask the god for the good reason to give you the ability perfection, because of your obedience, then the God will give you, if the god is good and Almighty. Simple logical prove (the evidence) for this concept. So,
If you are humble, please… Pray to know the truth from true God by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit with great faith and. Good in Bad & Bad in Good so the values are most important. God gave us the rights to do what is right for you & sometimes, things can be right in your point of view but wrong in Public point of view so Basically, just pray about it for the Good Answer and try to do the God’s will first always & If you think, why so much trouble and pain in this world…? Then there is only one reason, without pain, No pleasure and without pleasure, no pain. So without them, we cannot enjoy this life so always we need them in our development towards the perfection of God. So-so you use pain and pleasure instead of pain and pleasure use you. I mean the vision of your future should be clear & it have to pull you rather than you have to push so you must link a lot of pleasure in order to succeed in the Best job. When you feel strong enough links a lot of pleasure in your subconscious mind and your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. & It is wonderful nature for us by the true God. And we all make mistakes so it is hard to look for star in daylight. So just in faith… it is possible. Like that the faith in true God. & If you think, even expert can be wrong then you have to make the fine research in all most everything so It is hard and some time, it is impossible to achieve so Why we need inappropriate action to find the owner of higher power? So, because of Lack of faith in true God, we do not have the great gift of understanding of things. & All things are spiritually first, to govern by God with glory so closely, Have a look at this world of wonders of yours and then you know the truth, when you listen to your real voice and then Having a strong desire to do the best every day then stick with the best to do your best. And most importantly, try to be grateful for what you have now & try to know where you come from to have the great gift of understanding and then, have the faith to become the best winner in your life. & The Law of mercy cannot rob the Law of justice so Justice demands the punishment of our sin but The Law of mercy requires the forgiveness to give to us and God is perfect in perfection so cannot violate his laws so The God provided the way to our salvation to overcome our sin so Jesus Christ sacrifice is much needed to return to live with God, so Jesus Christ is our savior.
Well, it is the time to make the great decision.
Good luck.
The power is focus with the great mindset
If you find this useful, please
July 4th, 2010 at 4:53 am
As for interpreting the Bible “literally,” ask a rapturite to interpret John 6:50-58 or 1 Peter 3:21 literally. They will insist those passages, respectively addressing the Eucharist and baptism, are written metaphorically. But the book of Revelation — filled with images of a dragon, a multi-horned beast, locusts, bowls, trumpets, and Jesus with a sword coming out of his mouth — is meant to be interpreted literally
A good example of this tendency is the rapturite belief that animal sacrifices will be renewed in the rebuilt temple in Israel during Christ’s earthly millennial reign. Although the Left Behind series hasn’t arrived there yet, no doubt the books will depict such activity. In his commentary Revelation Unveiled, LaHaye explains:
[The biblical book of] Ezekiel goes into great detail regarding the matter of worshipping in the Temple, even pointing out that the sacrificial systems will be reestablished. These sacrifices during the millennial Kingdom will be to the nation of Israel what the Lord’s Supper is to the Church today: a reminder of what they have been saved from. No meritorious or efficacious work will be accomplished through these sacrifices. Instead, they will remind Israel repeatedly of their crucified Messiah. . . . 7
The True Story of the Rapture
Speaking of misleading, did you know that the rapture as taught by LaHaye and others has been around for less than two centuries? The Left Behind series and LaHaye’s other books imply or directly claim that their version of the rapture comes from the Bible, was taught by some Christians in the early Church, and is a sign of true Christianity. But this claim is both wishful thinking and categorically false.
dispensationalists and other rapturites are actually a small, recent minority of Christians worldwide
Even the founders of the major Protestant traditions, such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, and John Wesley, didn’t believe in a secret rapture.